Stories, Success & Stuff
Watch episodes at https://www.siarza.com/siarza-podcast
A Siarza Production
Hosted by Kristelle Siarza & Jace Downey
Executive Producer: Kristelle Siarza
Producer: Jace Downey
Videographer/Editor: Justin Otsuka
Stories, Success & Stuff
Episode 29: Big Leader Energy with Ken Jacobs
Join Kristelle & Jace for an insightful conversation with Ken Jacobs, an expert in executive coaching and PR agency leadership. Ken shares his wisdom on leadership development and personal reinvention, reflecting on success and professional milestones. We explore the transformative journey towards fulfillment beyond titles and the profound impact of leadership. Join us for an inspiring episode!
Connect with Ken:
Website: www.jacobscomm.com
X: @KensViews
Linked IN: www.linkedin.com/in/jacobsconsultingcoaching/
Taking the Lead Podcast: www.jacobscomm.com/taking-the-lead/
Complimentary Session: www.jacobscomm.com/contact
A Siarza Production
Hosted by Kristelle Siarza Moon & Jace Downey
Executive Producer: Kristelle Siarza Moon
Producer: Jace Downey
Video/Editing: Justin Otsuka
Watch episodes at siarza.com/siarza-podcast
Follow us on FB, IG, TT, YT and TW @siarzatheagency
Follow Kristelle @kristellesiarza
www.misskristelle.com
Follow Jace @jacedowneyofficial
www.jacedowney.com
I find it maybe ironic or delicious or delicious irony that I helped leaders become much better leaders than I ever was and I can reflect on my lack of leadership at times or mistakes in leadership and help them do better.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Today is episode 29. Season two boom.
Jace Downey:Why did you whisper that Boom? It felt more suspenseful. Season two boom, coming in with a whisper. We're gonna end it with a roar.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:We're ending it with a roar.
Jace Downey:Get ready for it, because we have a surprise, we have a very I mean, we've been promoting it, so it's not like a total surprise but it's a first. It's a first on story success and stuff.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:His personality is not a surprise. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a very special guest, not physically in the room, but virtually in the room today. Ladies and gentlemen, please meet Ken Jacobs Woo. I wish we had more of an audience Ken.
Ken Jacobs:I'm sorry that we don't. That always happened. When people say my name, that's the reaction I'd like. I don't like it.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:We're gonna get John Goldberg from Counselors Academy to follow you around with a sound board and he will press the button that has all of the applause and a couple of Jewish jokes, if you'd like.
Ken Jacobs:I'm gonna say, if we're looking for someone to follow me in the effort of getting me applause, John Goldberg is not. He'd be like boo no.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Has been.
Ken Jacobs:I can't now, I cannot, I have to think who would do applause Ben Finzel. Ben Finzel would be, he's great.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Our Counselors Academy co-chair, amazing individual from the PRSA Counselors Academy Spring Conference, Ken. I will introduce Ken really quick and I'll toss it to you, Jace.
Jace Downey:I was just gonna ask at what level of fame or expertise do you get theme music? Cause I don't necessarily need applause, but when I walk in I would like there to be theme music. That's a good like walk out.
Ken Jacobs:That's as a speaker Like when does that happen? Wait, the song about Ken. I'm Ken enough.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Oh, yes, yes, which just won an Emmy.
Ken Jacobs:I should have worn my, not Emmy, cause it's.
Jace Downey:No, emmy's are TV. I thought it was an original song. Anyways, that wouldn't be an Emmy.
Ken Jacobs:They won a Golden Globe for one song and a credit choice for that's correct. And I have a Ken enough t-shirt that I should have worn, yeah, okay.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Alongside your Ken F Ness t-shirt Ness Ken Jacobs is the principal of Jacobs Consulting and Executive Coaching, which helps empower public relations and communications leaders and executives to become more effective leaders. It does so via executive coaching. His company also helps agencies grow business, manage profitability, improve client service and enhance team performance communication leadership skills through training and consulting. Prior to launching this company that he's currently in this capacity, ken spent 25 years in management and leadership positions with a number of public relations agencies, which does include Ogilvy and Mather Public Relations old school incredible organization Marina Maher communications Melania Fox and Lippy Taylor. Ken discusses leadership with some of public relations and communications industries most respected leaders through his leadership column in PRSA strategies and tactics and that column is called Taking the Lead, similarly named to the video podcast on his website and YouTube channel. He's a regular presenter through PRSA Counselors Academy, prsa Western District, various PRSA chapters. He serves on the board for the PRSA Tri-State District and was on the board for PRSA New Jersey from 2013 to 2022. Ken, it is incredible.
Jace Downey:You have an incredible resume. I was like do you want to take a?
Ken Jacobs:breath I want to share with everyone. That was my tightened intro and I think my intro needs some tightening. I think I have to hire Ciarza to edit that thing down. Because that took. You know, that was like I was bored, but I'm bored with me.
Jace Downey:Have you ever considered becoming less awesome and then we'd have fewer things to say? Yeah, that's also an option Up to you up to you.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:So, Ken, I'll discuss. So I'm a big believer in professional development, not only for myself but for the rest of the team. That is amazing on its own, even better with professional development, and I am so grateful for the work that you did for a key leader within our organization. But you know, the theme of the show is called Stories, Success and Stuff, and so I always want to start off with a guess Like how do you, especially with the amount of team members that you've coached and leaders that you've coached, how have you defined success with them?
Ken Jacobs:Yeah. So I just want to say one quick thing as with all my coaching clients, I take pride in their achievement. But they get the credit, they do the work. So that leader on your team did the work and I take pride in that. Okay of all terms.
Ken Jacobs:So what is success? For me, success is that I figured out as odd as this sounds get out of the PR agency business which I had started in Young, got into management, young, leadership, young and create this new path and create this new career for myself. At a certain point in my life I was meant to do agency work and at another point I was meant to do this and it just feels so fulfilling and exciting. And I mean and I tell people I loved my PR career. I had some highlights, we won Silver Anvils and other awards and Best of Show Great. That had impact on sales, right, everything PR can do. But as fulfillment goes, it doesn't come close to this phase of my life. So in that sense that I feel fulfilled every day, to me that success and I'm picking up you said something specific.
Jace Downey:I created this path so you had agency in what you were doing and the fulfillment you were gonna be receiving, and that meant a change. Sounds like that. You had to take a new direction.
Ken Jacobs:Big change, big change, and we need to do that sometimes If what you're doing isn't working, even if you know I mean, I started young I was kind of a wonder kid, if I'm pronouncing it right but I had great opportunity brought to me and I worked for leaders who saw something in me which is lovely, but at a certain point it wasn't working and, to you know, I hit the point of realizing I could go back and hit my head against the wall and try it and try it, or try to be open to it was time for something new. And it wasn't as hard a decision as you may think, Though, of course, starting a business like this, with no clients looking back, like what was I thinking? What was I insane? Maybe I don't know.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Well, I wanna go back to the start of the company, your company, my company. And I wanna go back to the start of Jacobs Consulting and Executive Coaching. When did you know? You know, one of the things I love about public relations agency owners is that we're whole, we're very whole, different breed than the rest of the entrepreneur community. When did you know it was time for a career change? What? Was that breaking point for you.
Ken Jacobs:Oh, easy, easy, In full candor, because we tell the truth, we try to tell the truth always. I had this great career and then each position was of shorter and shorter duration and, in full candor, brutally honest, it wasn't always by my choice. So at a certain point I had to think about why is this not working? It's so much success early on, what's not working now? And so, faced with two things, could I figure out what wasn't working for me as a, not just an agency leader, but as a leader? And frankly, I was 50.
Ken Jacobs:And if you think there is an ageism in the world or in the agency business, there is. So finding a position at age 50 was gonna be really hard and I wasn't really sure what wasn't working. So, in full tip of the hat, our mutual friend George Rosenberg, we did a career reevaluation what are you good at, what are you passionate about, what do you love and what can you make, whatever a life of abundance means for you, money-wise? And George and his wife Arlene guided me to becoming a coach and consultant and trainer for the PR agency world and I said but, and encouraged me to present at Counselors Academy.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Huh.
Ken Jacobs:But, george, then I'll be a competitor of yours. And George said there are enough people out there who need our help. I'm good with it, I'm fine, and I thought that is a generosity of spirit that really wasn't in my DNA then, yeah. So I think I sort of thought, gee, if I could become a coach, could I be that generous? So that was the moment. That was the moment.
Jace Downey:How long from that moment to actually making the change? How long between there was that?
Ken Jacobs:I mean it was immediate. I mean I know I incorporated in October 2006. And I made and then started looking for clients, so it was right there. I mean it's not like I was working in an agency and then I was going to create this thing while I was working. I wasn't working, so I had plenty of time to figure it out. Not well needed money coming in, but I could spend full time creating it.
Jace Downey:Sure, sure. Was there anything earlier on in your career that indicated to you that maybe the path was changing or it wasn't the best fit for you?
Ken Jacobs:Yeah, I can only tell you with hindsight, with the rear view mirror. I didn't know at the time. So we did a lot. We launched the one and only Wonder Braum on all kinds of awards, yada, yada, yada, and it was always big and bold and outdoors and women coming out of helicopters and on billboards and Times Square. And I remember being in a taxi from the hotel to the event and my stomach was churning and I said to myself look, you led the strategy and the creative behind this event. You're good at what you do, so that's cool. You've got an amazing team of agents, client-facing people. They were amazing. We had a media department better than anyone in New York. So I one sided. I mean, oh, we had Marina Mar, who we mentioned, who would come to the event, not questioning, not like, what do you need me to do? How can I keep the clients out of your hair? Tell me what you need, I will do it. How's that for a boss? Huh? How's that for leadership?
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Yeah.
Ken Jacobs:So I had everything, uh-oh, okay, so I had everything, but that churn was going on. I couldn't enjoy it. With hindsight I realized it's because I needed to make a switch.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:So you-.
Ken Jacobs:I didn't know at the time and it took a few years after that.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:So there's. So in that moment when you're in the taxi cab, was it the fact where you said I don't find this fun anymore, or was it that imposter syndrome? It didn't sound like it.
Ken Jacobs:You know, I don't know that it was either because my mind was saying look, unless there's like an explosion at city hall or God forbid, something else, we're gonna kill it with media. We're gonna go national. Yeah, branding will be there, because we figured out how to integrate the. You know all that stuff. But my mind talk and my gut talk were like out of whack. Mm-hmm Gotcha I couldn't enjoy the moment.
Jace Downey:The mind and the mind.
Ken Jacobs:So again, hindsight, I realized so that was late 90s, early 2000s. So it took a few years, and two jobs later, careers later, to realize time for a change. And what have you got to lose? I had nothing to lose, really.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:So when so fast forward, it's 2024, right? You remember those moments as a leader, as a director, as you know, a partner in an agency, and it's 2024 now you're coaching, and you've been coaching for a significant amount of time. I'm curious the lessons that you learned then, or those feelings and emotions, or those shoes that you once wore, how often do they come back to you in your coaching now?
Ken Jacobs:Constantly, constantly.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Yeah.
Ken Jacobs:Any of us who worked for Marina Mar talked about her expressions. We call them Marinaisms.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Oh no, I'm afraid that might happen to me someday.
Ken Jacobs:All of us agree, we think of them once a week, once a week and we've had Marina on taking the lead and I said I don't know if you realize we call them Marinaisms and they guide us. They're so strategic. And you know, one of my fates there were two that I remember. One is hell is God giving you what you asked for? That was from her dad, but the one I use a lot is you don't ask, you don't get.
Ken Jacobs:Don't ask, you don't get. And there are so many times I think I gotta ask or I'm not gonna get. Thank you, marina. So I think a lot of it is that. I think also I find it maybe ironic or delicious or delicious irony that I help leaders become much better leaders than I ever was and I can reflect on my lack of leadership at times or mistakes in leadership and help them do better. So it's some like now I've talked to everybody, I'm almost everybody I've led, I'm still in touch with them, and they say you're much too hard on yourself, you are not as bad as you may think. I'm like, thank you. And many of them have hired me, which is also delicious, but that's it in their future life and now they've got like these amazing careers. But I think that I can take those lessons and build a life of abundance, helping people be better leaders. To me that's very satisfying.
Jace Downey:Leaders is a word that you're using often and you write about it often. What is the difference between a leader, a manager and a boss?
Ken Jacobs:Yeah, huge, huge, huge. So I see the PR employee arc, especially agency. First you're learning, then you're a practitioner, then, like you're a really good practitioner, then you're a manager and then at a certain point you can become a leader. But that's a two-part choice. Your conscious decision to lead humans, to inspire them and I'm not mitigating running an agency and growing business and everything else, but saying it is my destiny to lead people, to help them create success beyond what they even knew they were capable of that's a big decision, it's a conscious decision. So that plays a role. But then your team members conscious decision to follow you or not, because they don't have to follow you. They can come in, they can do the work, they can mark the checklist. It's a little transactional, but I think with leadership we have the opportunity for it to be transformative. So again, your conscious decision to lead, their conscious decision to follow you. And you've got to earn that. You've got to earn that. It's not that your name is on the door or you're in the org chart somewhere or you've got the fancy office. That's not leadership. Let me not forget your other question, the difference between a leader and a boss. I mean, I think when you're a leader, it is so much more powerful than being a boss, and I think boss is usually a designation for someone fairly near the top.
Ken Jacobs:I've known people throughout my career who are leaders when they were senior AEs. I know someone one of the firms where I worked, ogilvy was going through changes. They brought a new leadership, yada yada, it really felt like the ship was rudderless. Lenore Cooney is someone who would have people lined up outside her door for counsel and what should we do and how should I run? And I used to do. I used to go and ask and I didn't report to her.
Ken Jacobs:Ultimately, when she got the big promotion, I think it was depressing. It was just such a natural thing for us because we were already following her, gotcha, we were already following her. So that was a great example for me of it's not about the org chart, it's not about you know. The other thing is and I tell the story a lot poor Annie Heckenberger, who does social media out of Philadelphia, but she was at Marina Mar, she was a senior AE, but in the media department, and she had such great influence because she was so knowledgeable about media, about pop culture and about other things that we would just go to her and we didn't think, hey, you're only a senior AE.
Ken Jacobs:So I always say my definition of leadership is if you use your leadership energy to get the desired outcomes for the organization, for the client, for your team, for your boss, for your peers and yourself, if you're using that energy the right way, you're a leader. And so if you agree with that definition, then you realize we can have a lot of leaders in our agency or in any organization, and that's a good thing.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Yeah.
Ken Jacobs:I think you know there are people out there who we just know we can count on, who bring it, and bring it, and bring it. And I think if you've earned that reputation, then I think you appreciate that more than others.
Jace Downey:And I'm going to say speaking of people, we're very big on those who have helped us. We both have mentors or we've hired coaches or we're really big on the team. You can check out the squad episode if you haven't from season one. But who helped you along the way?
Ken Jacobs:Well, I've mentioned some of the people I've mentioned already George and Arlene Rosenberg for helping me with that career reinvention. Lenore Cooney, who helped me just do my work and lead my teams during what could have been really difficult times. I worked for two women agency glass ceiling breakers I wish there was a shorter term but Gene Way Skoonover and Barbara Way Hunter. I didn't work for them in the late 60s I was still in elementary school, I promise but they took over an agency in the late 60s. I'm telling you, women for the most part did not run agencies in the late 60s.
Jace Downey:Trust me.
Ken Jacobs:Okay, it's funny, they took it over. They realized that a lot of the men who worked for them made a lot more money than they did. Because that was acceptable those days, they corrected all the salaries.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:That's a good idea.
Ken Jacobs:Most of them well, it was mostly them right? Most of the male executives left except one, hal Kiers, who was one of my leaders and a hero, and it's hard when you've come so far here I am talking to so many women agency owners, but it's hard to imagine that only 40 years ago. How rare that was. How rare that was Then in around.
Ken Jacobs:I'm going to get the year wrong, but I think the mid 90s Barbara then created her own firm, now called Hunter PR, now very big now very prominent, successful right and I'm telling you, in the mid 90s if that's the year it was women in their 60s did not just start agencies, it took such courage.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, I'm going through a little bit of a history lesson in public relations, especially in the APR. You kind of go through the folks in the 20s, which is when the public relations position was created, especially in the times of war, et cetera. And then 20 years later and then 40 years later you have agency growth et cetera. This is all really fascinating. I am curious, ken, out of the folks that you've coached so far, or some of the situations that you might have seen in your own personal success story.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Failure is a big topic in our podcast as well. You might have heard about how I failed, jace has failed. People have had some really fascinating failure stories. Do you have any that you're willing to share that are like funny failures or failures of irony, with that irony was involved either personal or some of the things that you've seen on your coaching in the coaching obviously not naming names, but, like you know, I talked about this yesterday in a conversation about strategic planning. I talked about failing forward. Do you have any examples in the peripheral within yourself about failing forward?
Ken Jacobs:I think I'm going to. I'm going to detour a little bit. Sure, I'm going to go back to the beginning. When failure comes up, I try to plant a seed. I try not to talk much because the essence of coaching is asking open-ended, empowering questions. That's what lights up the coaching clients' brain. But when failure comes up, I try to plant the seed, the notion, and I know I've used this quote there are no failures, only learnings. Or there are no failures, only experiments. And I've really come to believe that. And if you don't want to take my word for it, the list of people, amazing leaders in all walks of life who agree with that thinking include are you ready? Edison, einstein, the Beatles, the original Mr Honda, elefant's, gerald Oprah and Dolly Parton. They all agree that failure leads to success and it's not something to be worried about. Not only is celebrated, but shared.
Jace Downey:Doing it publicly. Yeah, this notion that anyone can get through without having some failures along the way is so destructive.
Ken Jacobs:The most success, and I think Bill Gates might be in that group as well. I believe it. There are a lot of people they just know failures along the way. So one thing I try to do in discussing failures, I always try to put it in air quotes because that just says to us. I think it minimizes the power of how we usually think about failure. But I think if you look up failure and leadership, you will see so many examples of leaders Again, all walks of life who not only failed but value their failure and celebrate it.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Well, ken, we're going to start wrapping up here really really quickly.
Ken Jacobs:Did we just start? I know it goes so fast.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:I mean okay, so here's a more personal question.
Ken Jacobs:Uh-oh.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:And it's a good way to kind of talk about this, because I'm a big believer in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The pursuit of happiness is one of my favorite movies. At the end of the day, how will you know you, mr Ken Jacobs? How will you know you lived a good life.
Ken Jacobs:Yeah, this is going to sound odd. I'm already feeling that it's not at all.
Ken Jacobs:I've spent a good 17 years give or take, helping people become inspiring leaders. To become inspired and inspiring leaders to manage and walk through their fear to ask for what they want. To give feedback, constructive feedback that needs to be given Um, so that I chose that life and I get to do that makes makes me feel great about those choices and I like to think I'm. I mean, one of the things I peck is where I did my coaching training and some of my certification Institute for professional excellence in coaching and and what what gets us going is we are trying to make the world a better place, one coaching client at a time.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:It's powerful.
Ken Jacobs:Ken, that's powerful. That's what it is for me, ladies and gentlemen, Ken Jacobs.
Jace Downey:I was going to drum roll. I know I was going to drum roll, but Justin would kill me, yeah.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:We're so thankful, Ken. I hear that you might actually have a complimentary session for some folks. Can you talk about that really briefly?
Ken Jacobs:I do. I believe that if I'm given an opportunity to give a leadership symposium or a webinar or speak or appear on a podcast, if anyone's listening and you'd like to become a better leader, I'm happy to offer a complimentary session 45 minutes. If you're not leading the way you want, if you've got things getting in the way, if you want to go from good leader to great to consistently great, if you're having a challenge at work leading someone, if you're having a challenge speaking to your whatever it may be, I'm happy to offer a 45 minute complimentary session. And I always say you may be surprised at what we can achieve in 45 minutes.
Jace Downey:Absolutely and take him up on that, truly 100%.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Why wouldn't, you, why wouldn't you?
Jace Downey:You guys are here obviously to learn. You're wanting to get things, but we'll put the info for that in the description. And I have a surprise for you, Ken. I got to break it to you. You are that generous, gracious leader. You talked about having been an inspiration to you and you thought well, I ever be that generous and gracious? What an offer. So you're there.
Ken Jacobs:My pleasure Thank you.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Thank you, Ken, and if people want to get in touch with you, they can find you on LinkedIn. Just send a search for Ken Jacobs PCP. They can contact you via email, k-e-n at j-a-c-o-b-s com, c-o-m-m dot com, or your website, jacobescomcom. And, most importantly, you are a gem and thank you. Thank you so much. In your stories of success, failures and leadership in general, I hope inspire those that listen to failure air quotes.
Ken Jacobs:Failure. Thank you.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Ken, anything else that you wanted to add to today's conversation?
Ken Jacobs:Yes, I am just so honored and grateful to be the first outside guest on the podcast. It's just crazy and I appreciate it and I had a blast and thank you to you both.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:We have this ongoing joke that our moms your joke, my joke, my joke that our moms are listening, plus more now. And so now it's even more humbling to know that you're also listening. And you were asking hey, I want to be on the show and thank you, Thank you for your enthusiasm.
Jace Downey:Thank you for your support.
Kristelle Siarza Moon:Thank you for telling everybody about how great our podcast is. Thanks again to everybody for listening to our episode of Stories, Success and Stuff. We can't wait for you to see the rest of season two. Thanks for joining us. This is Jace. I'm Crystal. Thanks again, Theいます.
